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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Education Schmeducation 1
#20286155 - 07/17/14 12:13 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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So throughout life I've heard people tell me that you don't need a college degree to succeed, while others have stated that you get nowhere in life without at least a college or masters degree. The former are generally aquaintances or peers around my age and the latter are more often my parents and older people. It seems to me that this is because older people have more experience, while people my age are typically fed up with studying for an uncertain future. Now I don't agree with any side, because I don't know enough to do that. I can't seem to put my finger on what I should be searching for to get to the bottom of this important choice one is expected to make in life. I know people that have been successful with and without at least a college degree, so for me it seems that both sides can be right. The reason I want to know this is so that I can give the proper advice when the topic comes up, because for me it doesn't matter since my parents would kick me out of the house if I dropped out of school. Besides that I'm just curious for the sake of knowing the answer.
Anyone think they know which side is right? If any is?
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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dodgem
Learner
Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 2,683
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
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College is a huge scam if you ask me. After 6 years, a chemistry undergrad and a masters in exercise science, I am not sure if I am any better off than if I would have been working for 6 years. Sure, it has opened up a few opportunities I wouldn't have had, but who knows where I would be if I had been actively pursuing jobs and working for the past 6 years. I think college makes sense and works well for those who know for sure what they want to do in the future. But for those who aren't too sure initially, it can be a huge waste of money and time. I would try and figure out what you want to do before you attend a university (community college can be good to fill up gen eds and figure things out while not going thousands of $ in debt).
The fact that ~60% of the classes I have taken do not return tests after taking them (95% of finals), they just show tell you the grades, absolutely baffles me. How are you actually supposed to learn and understand anything if you have no clue what (true false/multiple choice) questions you answered correctly/incorrectly? I think oral tests should be given more often as a test of not just knowledge, but understanding.
But in the end it comes down to who you know, not what you know (or some piece of paper you have) in my opinion. Most universities do not teach so you understand the topics at hand, but instead teach so that you can remember said knowledge for a few days/weeks/months.
And your thread title reminded me of a time in high school when I got kicked out of gym class for saying 'rules schmules' after a score by our team was overturned because 2 girls didn't touch the ball before we scored. The gym teacher looked at me and asked "what did you just say?!" with a tone as if I might have said something along the lines of "I am going to murder you and your family while you sleep" instead. I replied 'rules schules..." all innocent like, and then proceeded to instantly get kicked out of class for the day. It was very confusing. lol fun times
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Walk where you like your steps
Edited by dodgem (07/17/14 01:13 PM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,851
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Re: Education Schmeducation [Re: dodgem]
#20286605 - 07/17/14 01:56 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pure, distilled wisdom, dodgem:
Quote:
I think college makes sense and works well for those who know for sure what they want to do in the future. But for those who aren't too sure initially, it can be a huge waste of money and time. I would try and figure out what you want to do before you attend a university
Quote:
But in the end it comes down to who you know, not what you know
My grandmother once gave me a piece of advice about college: it works if you know what you're doing there, but if you don't, you're in trouble. She couldn't have been more right.
It is also true that, by and large, success professionally depends for most people (not all), on who you know -- on socially or familially developed career prospects. Having a bachelor's degree but no connections doesn't get one very far these days.
Personally, college was a huge waste of time for me. I am not one bit better off for having my bachelor of science degree than I would have been working my way up somewhere for four years. None of the jobs I have had post-college has required a degree, although one of them considered it "preferred."
Here's the knowledge I would impart to any young person today: In today's day and age, you've pretty much got to know in high school the exact specialty you want to pursue, and don't deviate from it -- if you want a good chance of sustained professional success. It is very difficult, with the extreme specialization we have in the modern economy, to get a general or liberal college degree (without a graduate degree) and throw an ad hoc career together -- unless you know somebody.
In the end, for me, college was worthless. Know exactly what you want to do early on and don't waver, or bet on having a rough go unless you get lucky.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
Edited by DividedQuantum (07/17/14 02:04 PM)
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Depends on the degree IMO.
Some degrees can get you a foot in the door for a stable well paying job. Of course internships and so on can also work and you need nothing but good standard education to get in the door.
It's also possible to get jobs with decent pay without a degree or internship anyway, if you show ambition companies will recognize it and move you up the ladder. There are also other ways to show ambition, knowledge and focus before getting a job without relying on certificates. All you have to do is be able to convince an employer to say yes IMO.
Personally the whole shebangs not for me. The standard route of success seems dreary at best and I'd rather stay out of the way as much as possible even if that means having less money. I am considering methods to cut my cost of living over improving my pay bracket by any large amount.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,851
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Re: Education Schmeducation [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#20286751 - 07/17/14 02:38 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: Personally the whole shebangs not for me. The standard route of success seems dreary at best and I'd rather stay out of the way as much as possible even if that means having less money. I am considering methods to cut my cost of living over improving my pay bracket by any large amount.
I should add as a footnote to my post above: If that (the fast track) is what you're interested in.
Personally, I never was, and I could not explain in any number of words why I bothered to finish my degree.
Seems to me that "better job" is rather mythical.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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extreme
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,345
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Good post dodgem. And everyone else. I'm struggling with all this right now. Gonna go to community college this fall (I've already taken some classes here and there) but generally I have no idea what I actually want to do as far as a career goes, and that worries me. What was said about college where it works if you KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, I think that is true. But if you're like me and just don't know, it feels like a waste of time. This is a pretty bad attitude as I'm about to start taking classes again next month but that's just the truth of it. Personally I'm hoping that something will "click" this semester and maybe I'll get lucky and find my calling, but over the past 5 years I've thought a lot about careers and stuff and nothing sticks. I have various interests but nothing to the extent that I want to put tens of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands into going to school with no real direction in mind. It's very frustrating.
I also like what dodgem said about how school is more about short term memorization than actual understanding. It's felt like that for a long time now. I've always thought for most jobs, really anything you land with just an undergrad degree, could probably be done successfully with no formal schooling but instead just some good on the job training.
Luckily I've had one job since I graduated high school that I've put some years into and it remains my fall back career if nothing else ever sticks. Once I put enough time into that full time spots will open up. I'm almost positive that if tomorrow I was offered a full time spot there, I would say fuck college and just do that instead.
Like OP said I think older people (particularly my parents) stress higher education more than most. I know my parents think college is literally the most important thing in life to be happy and I'm just not on the same page with that. I really don't care about how much money I make I just wanna be able to make enough to live alone and take care of myself. A lot of it depends what you want out of life, if you're a simple person that doesn't get as much out of material things I don't think college is as important.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,062
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Re: Education Schmeducation [Re: extreme]
#20288328 - 07/17/14 09:10 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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study as long as you can it is the best thing you can do for yourself and the world
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: study as long as you can it is the best thing you can do for yourself and the world
wasn't that almost a line out of the movie Billy Madison?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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dodgem
Learner
Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 2,683
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
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The idea of a career is so unappealing to me. I already know what I want to be in the future. Happy. What that involves me doing, I have no clue, but I just can't see myself doing the same thing everyday for 25 years. The way I look at it, most people find what they want to do and concentrate on that one focus of study and then 'forget' about the rest. It's like giving up the opportunity to learn about novel subjects, and taking what you know and somehow being content with that. I don't want to give up learning and understanding about everything around me, there is too much going on to do the same thing over and over for a majority of my life.
If I could I would go to school for the rest of my life, obtaining 10, 20, 30 degrees in all sorts of fields (and still have summers off ). College is a lot of what you personally are trying to get out of it. If you just want that piece of paper at the end of 4 years, it is not that tough to accomplish but it will be pretty unfulfilling. But, if you actually want to learn something, and if you dedicate your time to understanding the concepts, you can get a lot more out of college than just that piece of paper.
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Walk where you like your steps
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,851
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: study as long as you can it is the best thing you can do for yourself and the world
I totally agree, but, imo, there is a big difference between really, honestly studying some subject and doing so for some school assignment.
“I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.” --Mark Twain
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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extreme
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,345
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Re: Education Schmeducation [Re: dodgem]
#20288542 - 07/17/14 10:12 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dodgem said: I already know what I want to be in the future. Happy.
Lol I love that quote, that's exactly how I feel too. I don't think my happiness will come from my job/career either but it's more of a personal satisfaction and contentment with all of life.
I don't know if you edited that Mark Twain quote in after DQ said it in his post but if not then you guys both posted the exact same quote within one minute of each other, what a cool coincidence
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Withinity
Untitled
Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 1,357
Loc: Côte d’Ivoire
Last seen: 2 years, 28 days
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IMO for the most part , that Philosophy is 10-20 years old at this point and is not a stable enough.
'Go to school, get the job make money then you get the wife and have a good life'
Now its like , ah yeah there are heaps of these little qualified shits that went to Uni but which one stands out and why?
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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It depends if you are planning on having a career that you need a degree for. If you are going to be a plumber or welder or something, then college would be pointless. However, if you are going to be a doctor or lawyer, then obviously you need to go to college.
Personally I like school. I would just keep going to college for a career if it were possible.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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I honestly had no idea what I was doing at university while I was there. Got the first year over with, but most of my weekends were just doing ecstasy with non-uni friends, I don't think I really had ANY uni friends lol. Failed a few subjects, didn't even have jobs in mind, was just trying to get the degree because it seemed like a good life decision, to have one. Or something. Ended up being diagnosed schizophrenic from all the awesome, sweet, awesome ecstasy highs (in my genes) when I got home.
You have to have a pretty stable and informed head, generally you have to be part of the pop culture, and you have to know 100% why you're there, where you're going, and why it suits you so well. Tourists need not apply.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,062
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Re: Education Schmeducation [Re: circastes]
#20289719 - 07/18/14 04:33 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I never saw that madison movie. but school is easier than any other institution to endure.
while it may seem expensive, it is the most important single thing that is recognized across the board.
I only took a bachelor degree, and by luck I kept teaching myself things, and by extreme luck, a long string of clients have respected what I taught myself - this is exceedingly rare, and difficult - rarer than getting lucky at real estate or the stock market.
in most cases the degree means much more than what you have actually learned, but if you do learn something as well, then that is even better.
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I never saw that madison movie. but school is easier than any other institution to endure.
while it may seem expensive, it is the most important single thing that is recognized across the board.
I only took a bachelor degree, and by luck I kept teaching myself things, and by extreme luck, a long string of clients have respected what I taught myself - this is exceedingly rare, and difficult - rarer than getting lucky at real estate or the stock market.
in most cases the degree means much more than what you have actually learned, but if you do learn something as well, then that is even better.
"Lucky at real estate". What is it with people that think making money on a house is somehow luck? It's silly. Oh sure your networking was "exceedingly rare, and difficult" and my success was "luck". Uh huh.
Real estate is the school of hard knocks. Anyone who thinks buying and selling houses, fixing them up, and renting them out is somehow "luck" should really try it sometime. Many have and flat lost their asses. Must have been "unlucky".
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Blacksmithing is the real school of hard knocks.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,851
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Re: Education Schmeducation [Re: Withinity]
#20290382 - 07/18/14 09:48 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Withinity said: IMO for the most part , that Philosophy is 10-20 years old at this point and is not a stable enough.
'Go to school, get the job make money then you get the wife and have a good life'
Now its like , ah yeah there are heaps of these little qualified shits that went to Uni but which one stands out and why?
Precisely.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: The reason I want to know this is so that I can give the proper advice
There's no proper advice you can give to anyone regarding this matter, since the results vary. All you can do if you really want to get involved and be reliable, is give them the cold facts.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,062
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: I never saw that madison movie. but school is easier than any other institution to endure.
while it may seem expensive, it is the most important single thing that is recognized across the board.
I only took a bachelor degree, and by luck I kept teaching myself things, and by extreme luck, a long string of clients have respected what I taught myself - this is exceedingly rare, and difficult - rarer than getting lucky at real estate or the stock market.
in most cases the degree means much more than what you have actually learned, but if you do learn something as well, then that is even better.
"Lucky at real estate". What is it with people that think making money on a house is somehow luck? It's silly. Oh sure your networking was "exceedingly rare, and difficult" and my success was "luck". Uh huh.
Real estate is the school of hard knocks. Anyone who thinks buying and selling houses, fixing them up, and renting them out is somehow "luck" should really try it sometime. Many have and flat lost their asses. Must have been "unlucky".
I am not knocking real estate, but, networking, sir, is not what I have been doing - I have been hitting the books. I mention that because we are talking school and that means hitting the books those are difficult but not the same as hard knocking, just reading and exploring and testing and re-reading...
why I mentioned self teaching, is that it is not usually respected, so I recommend school. however, if you have a chance to get into real estate, that is the wisest of investments. still school is extremely important, probably more important.
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